The truth is, I have a soft spot for the oddballs. Those who don’t quite fit in, who refuse to put themselves in a box. It’s how most of my peers feel, I think. Creatives. Artists. Music journalists. It’s why we’re all a little bit more gangly up and coming journalist William than the smooth-talking rock star in Almost Famous. Life is chaos, and so, we do our best by trying to make sense of the world through our art. It’s only natural that we gravitate towards others doing the same.
So maybe this is why I’ve always loved Downupright (they/them). I thought it was brilliant, if not a little insane, when they successfully crowdfunded a 60-minute album comprised of 60 songs in 60 different genres. Why I jumped at the chance to listen to their next album, Manic Episode!!, which is described as taking you deep into the chaotic, terrifying experience of living through mania; the frenzied energy of a mind in overdrive. It’s weird, no? And yet, it’s clever. Unique. Infectious. Perfectly Downupright. So is it any wonder that now, years into following their career, I’m still so awe-struck by the way they can show up with the simplest concept (pop!) and somehow it still feels so incredibly fresh, so deliciously invigorating?
I sat down to chat with Downupright about their most recent release, Radical Honesty, which they say is their boldest yet: pure, unfiltered pop that finally says exactly what they mean. Featuring everyone from Cory Doctorow to queer hip-hop stars and Fortnite influencers, this album proves that when Downupright drops the mask, the truth hits even harder. You can read our interview below and stream the album everywhere today. Oh, and how gorgeous is this artwork? Collage created by the incredibly talented Sarah Michelle Glann and made digital for the artwork.
Thanks for taking the time to speak with me. In one sentence, describe your music.
High-energy introspective synthpop that describes complex emotions and situations, sometimes incredibly specifically, with an extra focus on mental illness (less so in this album, though, but still there).
You have such an eclectic, ever-evolving style. I can hear the differences between songs or albums but each one feels distinctly Downupright. How do you manage that?!
I don’t even know! I think just because it is me! I can’t be anybody else! Haha. That’s cool if you think I do have a signature sound, and I think I sort of do too, but a lot of it is just accidental because I kind of am still the songwriter today just like I was yesterday. I’m going to keep having Bill Boulden ideas and executing on them in a Bill Boulden way, not suddenly be someone else.
Your new album Radical Honesty is out today and you’ve said it’s your most ambitious yet. I quote, “After years of far-fetched albums where I playacted an outrageous character, this album of pure pop shows and tells you who I really am and what I really believe.” It sounds like you’re finally showing the world who you are, take it or leave it. Tell me about that. Was that difficult at all? Or did you embrace the vulnerability of it straight away?
I do think I’ve always been quite vulnerable in my music: Repeated Phrases (Mostly Laments) is an incredibly real look at my struggles with depression, but it’s overly vague and meant to be interpreted. MANIC EPISODE!! is a real look at some terrifying manic episodes I’ve lived through, but exaggerated for artistic excess; you’ll be relieved to know I didn’t really crash that many cars. Radical Honesty, though, is specific. Every lyric is dead-serious true and represents precisely how I feel or an exact experience I have; from the “rent out the back of the puerto rican dive” to the “closet juggalo” to the “wrecked on a wednesday”. I sincerely mean everything I say and none of it is ironic.
Radical Honesty follows We’re Doomed We’re Dancing, which earned praise from Earmilk and Kickstarter’s Projects to Watch, and Manic Episode!! which caught the attention of influencers like RealXMan. After the sheer ambition of those two, how did approaching a more streamlined pop album feel?
It’s because of those two I felt ready for this challenge! This may sound counterintuitive, but I feel like I had to go through all those other genres to “get ready” for pop. My problem writing pop has always been that it’s such a blank slate; you can do almost anything if it’s catchy. But once I released 78 tracks in a single calendar year with no two the same genre, I suddenly understood how to paint with every color on the canvas- as long as I kept the songwriting catchy and the singing relatively front-and-center. That’s what made it no longer feel OVERWHELMING to open up a blank Ableton file and decide to make a pop song. I understood my options better.
You mention this album is your most accessible to date. Do you worry about losing fans who loved the chaos and irony of your past albums, or do you think they’ll follow you anywhere?
It should be fine? That signature Downupright style is still here, the focus is just more on addictive melodies and clear vocals, rather than one of my trademark gimmicks or challenges. I had just finished a year spent making outlandish music “because I could” and I felt, after everything that taught me, I bet people would love to just hear “hey, free of oddball frameworks, what’s just a good Bill song?”
As with all your albums, there are a ton of collaborations on the album and even more coming out of it, with influencers in the LGBTQ sphere sharing “Box in a Box” all over IG and TikTok. What made you decide to take that approach this time, and how do you think influencers fit into a musician’s toolbox?
I think I’ve come around to influencers because I am done wishcasting that anything else matters. I think I have been on the internet for too long (I am way older than I act) and I still remember music journalism being front and center e.g. Pitchfork. I’ve been holding on to that for too long because I want it to be true so badly. I also didn’t want to “ride the rollercoaster” with how much of a gamble the short-form video is; 99 times out of 100 nobody makes an interesting reel for a song, 1 time out of 100 it gets a bajillion views and you’re an overnight name. That stuff doesn’t play too well with my psyche; I already have bipolar and don’t like to gamble. Anyway though, it’s the only game in town now. I thought playlisting was important, but I’ve become so much more educated on how Spotify etc. are getting high on their own supply with self-made background music to reduce artist payouts, I doubt that’s the solution either.
Let’s talk about your new video for “Sold” which is a revamp of the same song/video from thirteen years ago. Why revisit and rework it now?
The easy answer is definitely that “Sold” was the most successful song or music video I ever released under my old artist name. It still regularly gets YouTube comments today as people continue to debate the meaning of it. Remaking it calls out to me because I originally recorded it at a time when I just wasn’t a very skilled mixer & masterer and the whole thing sounds dull and squashed. But then, crucially, I realized that when I released the original in 2012… whew. It was 2012 and I thought advertising and consumer consumption was bad. How quaint that seems. Marketing and consumerism have truly grown 10x more cynical and dystopic in the last 13 years, which led me to adjust the lyrics to make “Sold (13 Years Later)”.
The video is composed entirely of distressed advertisements. How did you select or design these ads to align with the updated message of “Sold”? Or was that all the work of Emmy Award Winner Alex Kourelis of Digital Geist?
All the work of Alex! I felt I had already said what I had to say by writing the song and I wanted to give my longtime collaborator a chance to have a creative presence by determining the pacing and tone. He definitely stuck to the core idea of associating the ads with the topic of the lyric, but he also had some great twists of his own. He leaned much harder into memorable meme ads that I myself had completely forgotten about, such as annoying Dell guy, JG Wentworth vikings, Slapchop, and others. And yet somehow it doesn’t make it humorous, it makes it even more dystopian.
How did your perspective on the song’s original themes shift as you reworked it to reflect today’s landscape?
Well, in the original, it was literally about the interplay between buying and selling. Every single lyric is that you bought this and were therefore then sold that, or that you were sold something and bought a different thing, but the key to it all was constant commerce. Now you look at what powers our internet economy and it almost doesn’t matter whether or not you are making a choice to buy or sell anything. And the most key change, of course, is the finale: “Do you remember when they sold the service to you? Now they just sell you to the service.” The present hellscape we live in is almost indifferent to your own individual choices- you are the product and a lot of people are making a lot more money selling you to different buyers than anyone ever made convincing you to consciously purchase things.
Just a few more to wrap things up! What’s your favorite pop album of all time?
Oooh! Toughie! A lot of my favorite albums are kind of pop-adjacent such as hyperpop or pop rock or synthpop or futurepop kind of stuff. In terms of pure 100% pop, celebrity-backed radio-ready pop? I am going to say 2023’s Cracker Island by Gorillaz. The Gorillaz have always been incredible, but I also felt that they never had a solid no-skips album; even their best releases like Demon Days and Plastic Beach had more than a few really ambitious tracks that tried something but it didn’t always work, resulting in albums where all-time GOAT pop songs were kind of surrounded by “yeah I just don’t get this one”. Cracker Island is the first one that’s start-to-finish no skips, every track is 110% the best execution of that track it could ever be. Literally all ten tracks are my favorite track.
Who was your most surprising collaborator on Radical Honesty?
It is absolutely my friend Whitney a.k.a KeepUpRadio! I’ve been trying to make a song where I can put her front and center for so long, but my stuff is never brand-safe. She is first and foremost a Fortnite influencer and her massive audience tends to the younger side. Given that past Downupright releases have been an immersive dunk tank of mental illness, substance abuse, and bizarre sexual encounters, there’s never been a safe place to put somebody who knows that a hundred thousand 13-year-olds will watch her next reel. But on Radical Honesty, I finally sculpted that chance, alongside Rocz Nice: “It Was Always Us Against The World” is a pretty feel-good, catchy song about you and your crew standing up for yourselves and finding your own path. No bipolar binge drinking in that one! Plus, she totally slays. The addictive way she sings “Guess I’m a do what I really wanna do / I’m prioritizing me I’m not priotizing youuu” is such anthem material.
Name one collaborator you’d love to have on the next album? It can be a musician, influencer, producer, anything.
I am pretty sure my dream collaborator for a long time has been Post Malone. Every anecdote I hear about him is that he’s super humble and just a really, really kind and nice guy who’s a genuinely nice time, and I would have had him at the top of the list before learning that he played lots of Magic: The Gathering. I love his work and he seems chill to party with. Plus, I am also Always Tired!
Finish the sentence: “People would be shocked to know that I ____.”
This is tough because I just aired all my dirtiest laundry on this album! I guess that not a lot of people know I’m really passionate about racquetball. It is kind of a dying sport but it’s the only sport I’ve ever played and I’m easily 20 years in.
Is there anything else you’d like to add?
Not at this time! I hope you find yourself singing along to Radical Honesty and maybe feeling like you understand me and my friends a little better by the end of it. Raise a glass I’ll toast to you… but only on next Wednesday! 😉
